Posted by Jef on August 17, 2000 at 08:39:55:
Hey you coach types...other questions.
Is a slight adjustment of the sights, in this case in the I want the hole to go up direction, a wise thing to do during a match or practice? Should I expect the sights to change slightly from day to day and/or from begining to end of practice?
Oh yea, yet another question... is it common for a shooter to take note of the fact that he/she has aim and hold skills greater in one direction over the other, say windage vs elevation (or vice versa)?
Posted by Warren Potter on August 17, 2000 at 11:27:38:
I'm a shooter type rather than a coach type, but I'll pass on what my old coach told me.
For years I never touched my sights. I mean literally. My guns were sighted, I assumed that any difference was in myself.
My coach told me that the idea of shooting was to shoot the highest score you can, and if you can increase the score by changing the sights then to go ahead and do it. NOT from shot to shot, but if you notice a general group to the left and shifting your feet doesn't change it, then move the sights to compensate. Different light conditions change the way we perceive our sights and can change the point of impact a little.
Yes, some shooters tend to have an elliptical hold, normally from seven to one o'clock, but it varies a lot. More than hold, if you're looking at actual shots on paper, it's more likely to be trigger-related than hold-related.
Offhand rifle shooters do generally sway more from side to side than up and down.
Posted by David M on August 17, 2000 at 17:46:57:
In some ways I disagree with Warren,if you are a new shooter and the pistol is nearly sighted, then move your sights to move a group of shots to centre, say every ten or twenty. But only move them for good shots and good groups, it is silly to move them for trigger flicks etc.
As you improve you can reduce the group size down to three to five shots. Once you reach master level you will be able to call each shots location around the ten or nine ring, then you can play click for centre by moving one click only to centre the shots.
There are a lot of diurnal variations that can change sight settings a minor amount including temperature of the day, air pressure, density, angle and intensity of light,as well as changes to us with grips, stance etc.
With experence you will learn to move the sights to correct for these before firing the shot.
This can make the difference between a 9.8 and a 10.0, and I have both won and lost finals by 0.1 of a point.
Posted by Rod Madsen on August 17, 2000 at 12:34:07:
I also am a shooter not a coach but I would like to add two comments to what Warren said. This is from my coaches and experience.
1) Don't move the sights less than 3 clicks. If it takes less than three clicks you probably don't need to do it.
2) Move the group, not the shot. Get a good sample to make sure that it is the sights that are off not the shooter.
3) Don't move your sights often. This is really a continuation of 2. Be sure that you do need to adjust the sights before you move them.
Posted by steve swartz on August 17, 2000 at 19:22:07:
The answer to everything in this sport is "It Depends." In this case, "it depends" on why you think your sights need moving in the first place!?
If the displacement of your Point of Aim away from your Point of Impact is due to an error in your technique, then I would suggest correcting your technique, not your sights. A lousy group centered is still a lousy group. By compensating for the average of a lousy technique, you are accepting the technical flaw.
If the displacement of POA from POI is instead due to a mechanical/environmental issue, then by all means grab that screwdriver and twist away.
Okay, so how does one know the difference? Like everything else in the world, by intense, sensitive, rational training. After a while of calling your shots over time, you will be able to tell fairly quickly whether or not "the fault lies in the stars, or in yourself" (sorry- couldn't resist). Indeed, there are patterns to certain types of errors. You should learn these and use them in training. By calling every shot, and focusing intently on the exercise of predicting POI from observed POA, you will soon learn the difference.
Oh yeah- a wise man once said "you should always adjust first your technique in training (shoot for perfect technique), but adjust first your sights in a match (shoot for points!)."
Me, I tend to disagree. A match is just unstructured training. I would rather waste 5 points on a bad group in order to figure out how to go back to shooting tens again (technique error), than to die the "death of a thousand cuts" with the nicely centered group of all nines.
Just my $0.02 US. Your mileage may vary.
: Oh yea, yet another question... is it common for a shooter to take note of the fact that he/she has aim and hold skills greater in one direction over the other, say windage vs elevation (or vice versa)?
Are you asking whether or not the statement is actually true; or are you asking whether or not shooters tend to believe it's true?
No and Yes.
Just kidding. Of course the human musculoskeletal system has greater rigidity in some dimensions than others. So it would appear logical that we would have greater dispersion in some directions than others. But for "proof," ask someone who has a Rika or Noptel (or Scatt, for that matter) if there is a pattern to there POA wanderings that has greater dispersion in one dimension vs. another. The answer may surprise you.
Posted by Dave Suitor on August 18, 2000 at 10:12:38:
I generally make my sight adjustments based on the composite group
after a 60+ shot session. I leave the first target in place and
place fresh targets over it. If I am changing sights in a match,
it usually indicates that I'm out of control.
Posted by R.M. on August 18, 2000 at 10:35:10:
It's been told to me, that Linda Thom, from Canada, gold medal winner in sport
pistol at the 84 L.A. Games, adjusted her sights 77 times during the match
(obviously sighters included).
Coaches have told me that if you feel that you need to adjust, do it. It's a confidence
thing.
Just my $0.02 worth to confuse you even more.
Posted by David Levene on August 18, 2000 at 12:47:26:
You pay a let of money for those nice easily adjustable sights. If your group is forming off-centre in a match, use them.
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