Posted by Charlie on August 29, 2000 at 12:29:50:
Your opinions on the Pardini line and other RF pistols please. TIA
Posted by Paul on August 29, 2000 at 17:20:08:
Sorry, if this gets to be a bit on the short side, but I haven't got that much time right now... :-)
a) Don't ask me about the Walther OSP/OSP Match/OSP 2000, I never owned one and barely know how they work, so PLEASE, ALL WALTHER OSP SHOOTERS, DON'T TRY TO SHOOT ME IN VIRTUAL REALITY. Thanks. Same goes for the Unique and the old Haemmerli, by the way.
b)The FAS 601 is certainly a good gun, with all the advantages of the FAS design (which makes them the best standard pistol in the whole wide universe), but the trigger could be better, the muzzle jump can't be eliminated (or did somebody manage to do this? Mail me!) and it's really difficult to build a grip near the barrel axis.
c) The Pardini GPS is definitely the gun to beat on the market, but it's only about 5% better than the conventional Pardini GP (the new one, with the spring loaded stabilizing rods in the barrel shroud, if you get my meaning) and I would never have bought one if I had known that before. But, alas, I got myself an GPS, and IT'S GREAT. But keep your hands off the 6cm add-on for the rear sight - it's way too long and all you see is your hand shaking - slightly irritating in 4 sec. The 3cm version is long enough, and you get the 5% box-bonus for your grip, instead of using it up in overall length. The add-ons can be mounted on the GP, too. And, the GPS out of the box is so heavy, Arnold would get serious stamina problems. Time to turn the lathe on. So, in comparison to everything else I know and everything else I've heard, the Pardini seems unbeatable - but it does not have to be the GPS.
Posted by Nicolas on August 30, 2000 at 08:39:17:
Paul,
The Walther OSP is a great gun. I've owned mine for about 3 years, and I am really impressed
with the balance, modular design, the trigger and the bore line.
I bought a wrap around Morini grip for mine and it is extremely accurate. The pardini line for
me is too light in back, and I really don't like the trigger too much. Also with the Pardinis the grip
angle is too rakish for my liking and forces my elbow into an uncomfortable position. But these complaints
are personal preferences. I've never heard anything good about the Hammerli's, and I guess that is
why they don't make them anymore. The FAS I shot was really nice. A little difficult to load the mags, but
that is a minor problem. They have great balance and appear to be as reliable as the Walther.
Posted by Paul on August 30, 2000 at 11:17:56:
Hm, makes me wonder. I've heard that the muzzle jump is something of a problem with the Walther (and I know people who have built strange and cosmic devices because of this, with different success rates :-) and that the very short barrel (85mm? Is that right?) can get you in trouble with the precision, but that's probably one or two levels above my possibilities...:-)Plus, I do think that the rear sight of Walther is probably one of the worst constructions on the market - personal opinion. But thanks anyway, always interesting to hear things from far away!
Posted by Nicolas on August 31, 2000 at 08:54:41:
Paul,
Accuracy from the Walther is not a problem, It is quite accurate among rapid fire pistols. I have had one problem
with the back sight popping off on the GSP version during a match, I am not particularly fond of that myself. The muzzle to me
does not jump up, that is why the barrel is ported and weights can be attached. I have never noticed the Walther to be any
different than the FAS or Pardini. If you can try one out first that is definitely the way to go, try out several and see
what you like. I really like the fact that I can drop in a dry fire rapid fire trigger and that the whole gun is modular to
get different components to put on the weapon to adjust it for personal likes and dislikes. I have mainly seen the Walther, FAS,
and Pardini's being used for Rapid Fire in the matches locally.
Posted by Paul on September 01, 2000 at 13:36:37:
Well, the FAS DOES jump, definitely (I shot one for three years) and the Pardini does NOT, definitely too (2 years), so if the Walther is the same as those two, what is it? Is it true that it's nearly impossible to adjust the dry fire trigger to be exactly the same as the real one?
Posted by Nicolas on September 01, 2000 at 16:09:32:
All guns have recoil no matter what gimmick is put into it. Compensators and recoil reduction devices help, but the laws of Physics prevail. Each gun may recoil differently, but they all recoil. You can put weights on the barrel to reduce this if it is noticable to the shooter, and on
mine, the grip is extremely tight on my Walther OSP. For me that helps along with having a ported barrel. The dry fire trigger does not have the same feel as the real thing, but if you are practicing timing, trigger control and coming up to the target it works pretty well. Some people like
them, and some people don't it all depends on how you train. For me the Pardini's trigger is not to my liking, it is too light in back, and the grip angle is too rakish. This all my personal preference, someone else may feel differently about Pardini's, and end up shooting real well with them. I prefer
the Walther's for the previous given reasons and the fact that I have never had one break on me in a match situation. Confidence in your weapon is key.
Posted by Mike McDaniel on August 30, 2000 at 12:34:24:
At this moment, the Walther OSP is the benchmark by which the others are measured. That being said, though, I suspect that it is no accident that Ralf Schumann (who is dominating the event) uses the Pardini. I found the grips on the Unique and Walther too steeply raked for my hand. And I will agree that the Walther rear sight is terribly fragile (I wound up gluing my rear sight blade to the rear sight blade mount). Eventually I'd like to try a Guttersnipe system (channel sight as used on the ASP. If there ever was a place for these, it's RF).
Now, let me add a question of my own. Does anyone know of a RF pistol with a crisp trigger? My OSP's long-pull trigger is driving me nuts!
Posted by Paul on August 30, 2000 at 17:39:26:
Well, obviously I tend to disagree on the benchmark thing :-), even if it would only be because of the muzzle jump and recoil reaction. NOTHING stands like a Pardini GPS, as far as I can see. By the way, somebody I know put a Pardini sight on his Walther OSP 2000. What a joke...
I don't think that it's possible to get a crisp trigger in a RF pistol, unless you go and put in the electronic trigger of Ralf (he customized a Morini trigger for his Pardini, and it seems to work). The reason for this seems to be the exceptionally high pressures you get on the overtravel (what's the proper english expression for this part of the trigger?) due to the low trigger weight. I was told that the lower a trigger is adjusted (and we're talking about a tuned sport pistol trigger here, but with 200gr at the most) the higher the pressure on those trigger parts climbs, so if you additionally adjust it to be crisp, and reduce the amount of overtravel with this, that part of the hammer breaks off, and you've got a machinegun. But of course, the question is open: DID ANYONE MANAGE TO BUILD CRISP MECHANICAL TRIGGER? MAIL US. Or, we could practice until we shoot in the 590s, go to a world cup final and ask Ralk if he will build an electronic Pardini for us.
Posted by Mike McDaniel on August 30, 2000 at 21:29:56:
I don't claim the OSP is the BEST RF pistol on the market, simply that it is the standard by which everyone else is measured. Let's face it, the OSP is over 35 years old, and it is just barely possible that someone could come up with a better idea.
As to the trigger problem, while I like a light trigger, I suspect that the long-slide designs are harder to shoot well than a heavier but crisper trigger. It doesn't surprise me that Schumann would rework a Pardini to incorporate an electronic trigger. It eliminates the entire business of manipulating the trigger either with pressure or with motion. Just get the sights lined up and touch the trigger. It DOES surprise me that Walther isn't working on a similar plug-in module for the OSP (which would be a true drop-in unit).
PS: With a bit of adjustment, you can get an OSP to go full auto. Not that I recommend it. Very bad for scores and nerves.
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