Posted by Patrick Bennett on February 05, 2001 at 21:48:16:
Hi,
I need some advice on how to attack the 10 second series of Standard Pistol. I have managed to duplicate my scores in 150 second and 20 second but I am all over the place with the 10 second series. I do live fire practice 6 times a week and dry-fire at home but I'm only training for minimum arc of movement and not rapid fire. My main problem is the initial "getting up there" stage. I tend to take too long in getting into my point of aim and leave myself less time to carry out the shots. I've read that it's best to not worry too much about the first shot but just get it up there to keep the rhythm going. This doesn't work for me as I still need it to be in the aiming area before I am comfortable in releasing the trigger. I have thought about starting to move my arm up just before the targets face me so that I am already in motion but still legally (if I judge it right) under the 45 degree angle allowed before firing. Another common problem I have is that I am either squeezing the crap out of the pistol and end up shaking like a wet dog or pulling the trigger so fast that I get shots to the left. I'd love to have a Master shooter as my personal mentor who can tell me how to continually get 50's but alas....my club of about 300 has only the odd B-grade shooter.
Help..........
Patrick
Posted by Nicole Hamilton on February 06, 2001 at 00:14:30:
I shoot NRA National Match, not international standard pistol rules, but the idea is the same, where you have timed fire stages of 5 shots in 20 seconds and rapid stages of 5 shots in 10 seconds.
Generally speaking, the trick in rapid fire is to ensure, first of all, that your NPA is dead on. Next, you need to fight the urge to panic that you don't have enough time and need to shoot at anything just to get the round off. Definitely, your first shot =does= matter, in my experience, because when you screw up a shot in rapid, it really distracts you on the following shots.
What I find is that you do not have time to make each shot perfect but then again, neither do you have to since (at least in NM and probably in SP also) the scoring rings are so much easier. What you do have to do is try to put every round in the black. You need to shoot just as soon as your sight picture gets good enough to be in the black. You should not shoot before then out of some fear you're taking too long, nor once you'e into the black should you worry about getting it any more perfect.
What this means is that in sharp contrast to slow fire, timed and rapid requires that you shoot while your sight picture is changing! You don't even =try= to get your sight picture to settle. As soon it goes into the black, you fire, then do it again.
Nicki
Posted by Larry Lohkamp on February 06, 2001 at 02:06:26:
Like Nicole, my primary focus is 3-gun bullseye. I also shoot standard, air, and free pistol and while the timing is a little different among the disciplines, they are very much alike. Having to raise your gun is more of a psychological difficulty. How much time do your really need to get off 5 shots? I suffered brain lock a while ago and forgot to drop the slide. After the targets turned, I managed to pull the trigger several times, rack the slide, and get all 5 shots off. From first shot to last - 4.5 seconds for four 9s and one 8. So you should be able to raise the gun and settle the sights in less than 3-seconds, shoot 5 shots one second apart, and still have time left over.
Developing a natural feeling point of aim and consistent grip will allow you to get the pistol up quickly and have the sights nearly perfect. Slow, Timed or Rapid, your pistol should come off the bench the same way. The only difference between the stages should be how long you hold before the first shot. You have as much as 3-seconds to get the first shot off in Rapid, so use all of it. The first shot should be a 10.
Follow through is important for all of the stages, but in rapid, you are lost without it. The gun should fall back to the target with the sights aligned naturally. If your stance and grip are correct, you should not have to fight the pistol to get the sights aligned. It’s a 22, not a 45. Do not fire the next shot until the gun stops moving. That may sound obvious, but we all find ourselves rushing the next shot on occasion.
Do not release the trigger during recoil. Keep pressure on the trigger until the gun comes to a stop, release the trigger until you feel the click of engagement, then apply pressure. The shot will break almost immediately.
For drills, you can use a timer during dry fire to practice getting the first shot off on time. Try for 2 seconds. For live fire, do 4-second drills (2 shots in 4 seconds). Use a blank target and work on getting the sight alignment and trigger working together. Force yourself to take the time to do it right.
One last thing - You cannot think about what you are doing in Rapid. Engaging the brain usually leads to disaster. You must practice until it becomes automatic.
Larry
Posted by David Levene on February 06, 2001 at 02:31:48:
Having shot Standard Pistol with some success for many years I can tell you the 10 second technique I always used.
On the targets facing I would bring my arm, smoothly, into the aiming area and expect the first shot to break in 4-5 seconds. I would then continue to shoot the series using a fixed smooth trigger rhythm. Provided that the gun was pointing in a safe direction then I would not allow anything, not even an apparent sight mis-alignment, to interrupt that rhythm.
To pull this off you need to be ultra confident that your trigger action is smooth and consistent. The only thing you then have to worry about is keeping the gun pointed at the target. Trigger release and shot timing really become an automatic function. There were many times when I wish that I had the confidence to use this technique in the 20s and even the 150s. Whenever I tried, and others will have more success at it than me, I started on a guilt trip telling me that I should be taking more care and time. Once that happens you can forget any chance of success.
How do you train for this technique? Frequently and heavily. When I was in full training I would expect to shoot at least 5 times a week and use between 1000 and 2000 rounds.
Be careful about moving your arm in the ready position. Rules 8.6.1.3 and 8.6.4.8.4 make it clear that the arm should be stationary and motionless before the target appears.
Posted by Pradeep on February 06, 2001 at 03:19:48:
What I find best is to get the first shot of quickly, so you don't rush the rest. Key is watching the front sight, and taking up the trigger during recoil. Everything must be combined, if you try and aim, then pull the trigger you won't have proper co-ordination. As was said, there is not enough time to be perfect with sight alignment, as long as the gap is reasonable similar it'll be ok, just don't try and point your shots exactly.
Practice just your first shot, then when you have that perfect, the first and second shot. That way you save a lot of ammo.
Posted by Mike McDaniel on February 06, 2001 at 16:39:05:
Patrick:
You might want to concentrate on the first shot alone - raise the gun, fire once. When you can get this down to 3 seconds or so, start working the rest of the string. My own experience is that finding a suitable pace is critical. Get the trigger pressure to the point where it is automatic, and concentrate on steering the sights. You'll be surprised at the number of shots that you thought were 9's that land in the 10-ring.
Posted by David M on February 06, 2001 at 18:17:57:
So far a lot has been said about how to shoot 10 seconds, but the secret is in the smooth trigger release.
The crisp two stage style triggers that people have on their sport and air pistols DO NOT MAKE GOOD STANDARD TRIGGERS. They are great for 150 and 20 but then they will cause snatching in the 10's with the resultant 6's and 5's.
A trigger similar to a rapid fire pistol with a long trigger pull and a lightly weighted roll off second stage (some travel on second stage) will help eliminate the snatching because it allows you to concentrate on the rhythm of the foresight (the arc it scribes in recoil from the previous shot)and squeeze the next shot off as the sight falls back into the aiming area with a single smooth trigger pull.
A pistol that is a good Sports pistol may not be a good Standard pistol because of its balance and its recoil character.
Posted by David Levene on February 07, 2001 at 02:34:36:
Whilst I totally agree with your first and last sentences David, I must disagree with your remarks regarding crisp two stage triggers and the 10 second series of Standard Pistol. They do not cause snatching, that comes from an incorrect technique and lack of confidence.
While I was shooting competitively I always used a heavy barreled FAS 602 with a "click" (FAS users will know what I am talking about) just before the crisp second stage (approximately 200g). Provided that I stuck to my technique the gun always recoiled perfectly back to the aiming area and the trigger was no problem at all.
Posted by David Levene on February 07, 2001 at 19:05:22:
Sorry, I should have added:-
This just proves that there is not one "correct" way of shooting. Different shooters will get different results using different techniques. I suppose that is what makes this sport so intriguing.
Posted by Patrick Bennett on February 07, 2001 at 18:41:10:
In Reply to: Need advice on 10 second series posted by Patrick Bennett on February 05, 2001 at 21:48:16:
Thanks for all your advice. The key points I got from all your comments were -
Ensure that my pistol is sighted in and will fall into the aiming area when my arm is raised;
Fight the urge to panic;
Each shot does not have to be perfect but release shot as soon as it looks like falling in the black;
The first shot should be the one that counts the most;
Do not release the trigger until the gun stops moving;
Practice until it all becomes so natural that I don't have to think about it; and
Practice on reducing the time for my first shot and then work on the remaining string bit by bit.
I'll let you all know how I go in my mid-week competition starting on the 22nd of February. I'm currently posting 515's so I'll see how this new approach improves my scores.
Thanks folks.
Patrick
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