Posted by kads on February 01, 2002 at 18:59:51:
Basically i am a new
shooter. What are basic, natural point of aim in shooting. Special in air gun
shooting (rifle).
Thanks
Posted by Michael Ray on February 01, 2002 at 22:23:31:
Essentially, you
get into position and then close your eyes for about 5 seconds and make sure
your body is relaxed. When you open your eyes you should still be very near the
target. If you have drifted off to one side, you rotate your feet about a
vertical axis (as if you were standing on a turntable) toward the direction you
need to go. If you are high or low, you either move the hand supporting the
rifle in or out or move your feet closer or further. Repeat as necessary until
you are very close to the target when you open your eyes again.
If you are
just starting out, you will likely be very erratic on resuming the same position
each time. So you could never move your feet or your hands and be pointing all
over the place each time you open your eyes. As you develop the feel of the
position though, you should be able to get to a point where you are within an
inch of where you started when you open your eyes without ever moving anything.
Once you can get within a few inches it shouldn't be too hard to adjust yourself
quickly.
Posted by Michèle on February 01, 2002 at 23:08:20:
Essentially, Natural
Point of Aim (NPA) refers to where the rifle is naturally pointing. In order to
eliminate as much muscling of the rifle as possible, shooters will align their
bodies/rifle with the target as closely as possible. In order to determine the
NPA, most shooters will assume their shooting position, close their eyes, and
look for the apparent drift. The shooter will then adjust his/her position
accordingly.
NPA, once established on the sighting bull, will need to be
re-established when moving from bull to bull on the standard 12-bull targets.
(It’s nice when you have the opportunity to shoot on single bulls, but even
then, you will want to periodically check your point of aim to ensure that it
has not changed).
There are a variety of ways to change you NPA. A good deal
depends on the position that you are shooting.
Since your interest seems to
be in air rifle, I will address NPA changes for the standing
position.
Elevation: moving the supporting hand closer to the trigger guard
will raise the rifle height. Relaxing the right shoulder (right handed shooter)
and letting the hips shift forward will also help to gain greater elevation.
Another way of making small vertical adjustments is through breath control.
Michael Ray will disagree with me here, but, a disciplined shooter who has
mastered relaxation techniques will find that breath control for minor
adjustments is a useful tool that does not impinge performance, but enhances it.
Windage: small lateral adjustments can be accomplished through the movement
of the trailing foot forward and backward.
Posted by Paul H on February 02, 2002 at 07:28:12:
I was surprised that
Michele suggested a relaxing of the right shoulder as a way to gain elevation in
the standing rifle position.
If this shoulder is not relaxed to begin with
(in a neutral state with no active muscle tension) then muscling will be
occurring with the obvious magnification of tremors at the muzzle and on the
group size on the target!
To try to further relax the shoulder from this
position will need further active muscling with fatal results to the shot on
release as the body relaxes especially when air rifle matches are sixty shot and
the body tires towards the end of the match.
Instead for elevation control
could I suggest?
1) Making use of the butt plate adjustment present on most
reasonably modern match air rifles. Or the actual position of the butt in the
shoulder.
2) The movement of the supporting hand towards and away from the
trigger guard as Michele suggested. In addition some variations of how the gun
sits on and the shape of the supporting hand can make a big difference on
NPA.
3) A widening or narrowing of the distance between the front and rear
leg will also adjust the height of the relevant shoulder.
I will also have
to agree with Michael Ray if he does disagree with the breathing method of
adjusting for elevation. NPA or zero point relies on the body being in a passive
state so we can see where the rifle is pointing of its own volition.
If the
lungs are not in a relaxed state of exhalation the intercostals and diaphragm
muscles must be active with resulting tremors and movement on release.
I
realize this is a little critical of Michele's post but maybe provides him with
food for thought. For KADS I suggest the following order of
experimentation:
1) Get in normal position and shoot for a good number of
shots until your body feels relaxed.
2) Check that weight distribution is
reasonably even on both legs, if not adjust spacing either backwards or forwards
until happy.
3) In position, take aim at the target but the point you would
release the trigger close your eyes and count SLOWLY up to ten. Open eyes and
see where the rifle is now aiming at.
4) If you need to adjust for elevation
I would start at the shoulder/butt interphase either by altering its position up
or down or adjusting the buttplate itself before moving to the supporting hand
position or leg spread position.
5) Before altercating anything, this maybe
obvious but I'm in sanctimonious mode anyway, make sure you can return back to
the original state if doesn't work. Also try BIG changes to start with so that
you are aware of the effect of the direction of change before you make the
actual subtle alterations needed.
Hope this of help.
Paul
Posted by Michèle on February 02, 2002 at 08:38:26:
The relaxation of the
right shoulder was based on Bill Pullum's philosophy, and, I have found, it
works. Obviously I do not advocate tension in the shoulder, but, even in a
natural, relaxed state, one can focus for a greater degree (biofeedback) of
relaxation.
: I realize this is a little critical of Michele's post but maybe
provides him with food for thought. There is always room for additional ways of
looking at things. That is what discussions are for. I think you will find
reference to the above methods from various other sources, as well. It certainly
seems to work for the AMU. And, Bill Krilling has also advocated breath control
and varying degrees of relaxation to achieve MINOR adjustments for elevation.
Lones Wigger is another who is a proponent for breath control as a method of
adjusting NPA. But, what works for one person may not work well for another. So,
ultimately, one needs to experiment to find the best individual method.
Posted by Paul H on February 03, 2002 at 11:26:34:
Not for me to argue
with the superfit and PROFESSIONAL athletes I have shot aginst in Europe from
the AMU or with the great names from American shooting but my philosophy is
always a search for precision and over a sixty shot match I could not guarantee
to be in exactly the same state of exhalation for each of the shots if I was
controlling my zeropoint (NPA) elevation this way and nor can the average
shooter.
The precision is instead achieved by utilizing the normal breathing
pattern by making use of and extending the natural pause between exhalation and
inhalation. Normal exhalation phase brings the rifle up on to the target so in
this state my zero point is hovering around the centre of the black.
My rifle
and position having been painstakingly set up to achieve this degree of
precision. Utilization of SCATT and RIKA systems played an important role in
this search for repeatability of zeropoint.
In fact it is a shame that the
rest of my technical skills are not as good:-)
By the way Michael is spot on,
and it was an oversight by me not to mention this, about not extending the
leading leg forward of the vertical as physiologically you lose the advantage of
the weight of the rifle acting directly down the hips and through the bones of
the supporting leg and you also find yourself working against the support from
your shooting trousers. Instead these factors will cause the hips to become
unstable and rotate from side to side.
Paul
P.S. I cannot recommend
Reinkemeier books and articles enough for anybody looking for sound principles
in the building of a good standing position.
Posted by Michèle on February 03, 2002 at 12:30:35:
: my philosophy is
always a search for precision and over a sixty shot match I could not guarantee
to be in exactly the same state of exhalation for each of the shots if I was
controlling my zeropoint (NPA) elevation this way and nor can the average
shooter.
Ah, now I see where you are coming from. You probably are shooting
on a single bull and do not have to adjust your natural point of aim for each
shot the way we do for most of our matches. What I'm talking about is miniscule
changes when going from say the 7-ring to the 10-ring as you progress through
the vertical and lateral changes on our 12-bull targets. In this case it is not
a matter of being in the same state of exhalation, but rather, in a state of
exhalation optimal for the 10-ring on that particular bull. Most of our matches
are on multiple bulls. Even our conventional smallbore championships at Camp
Perry requires us to shift positions a minimum of 4 times. This is different
than when shooting in Atlanta on a single bull with the electronic scoring.
: By the way Michael is spot on, and it was an oversight by me not to
mention this, about not extending the leading leg forward of the vertical as
physiologically you lose the advantage of the weight of the rifle acting
directly down the hips and through the bones of the supporting leg and you also
find yourself working against the support from your shooting trousers. Instead
these factors will cause the hips to become unstable and rotate from side to
side. If you read my response to Michael's comments you will note that what I am
referring to are very small changes, not the gross changes necessary to be in
the black, but the smaller changes to settle into the 10-ring.
Posted by JP O'Connor on February 07, 2002 at 11:59:10:
I second that!
Reinkemeier has shared a great deal of current information at a much deeper
level than most of the older sources. His writings, if taken to heart, will have
a profound effect on one's shooting.
Posted by Michael Ray on February 03, 2002 at 07:48:42:
I disagree with
this. Paul said it pretty much but I also disagree with shifting the hips
forward. It is just not as stable if you let them go too far (eg, front leg is
past vertical). One of my shooters ruined her standing position this year
because she did this and I have fought her the whole year to get back to the old
position where her front leg is vertical. You will see many top women with big
back bends (which I don't advocate) and vertical front legs, but I haven't seen
one yet that lets the hips shift forward enough to go past vertical.
I won't
touch the breathing subject again. I stated my case and stand by it. 8^)
Posted by Michèle on February 03, 2002 at 10:48:16:
It seems that we are
really dealing with two issues. We are discussing MAJOR changes and MINOR
changes. Somehow we are not on the same page. Here is the clarification.
Yes,
MAJOR changes are accomplished neither with breath control nor with a shift in
the hips. The position must be built so that the NPA places you on the bull.
Once you are on the bull, however, it is sometimes necessary to go from a
6-ring, 6 o'clock hold to a 10-ring hold. How is this accomplished? Well, that
is a MINOR change. THAT is where breath control and, sometimes, a shift of the
hips, comes into play. Such a change should seem imperceptible to an outside
observor. It is such a tiny shift that even with a photo it would be difficult
to observe outside of the shooter. But, anyone who has shot conventional prone
with a scope can tell you, it doesn't take much to move from the 9 ring (or 7 or
8 ring) to the 10 ring with breath control.
The shooter you mention as having
"ruined her position" was trying to use a shift in hips for gross adjustments in
order to settle on the target itself, not as a refinement of an already stable
position. In her case, large vertical adjustments should most likely have been
made by changing the height of the palm-rest or by moving the left hand forward
or rearward.
You are correct in stating that the shift in hips should not go
past vertical. General the weight in standing is distributed between both feet
(though weight can be distributed more to the front hip and foot-- European
method), but, one should be able to draw a straight vertical line down through
the left elbow onto the left hip and through the left leg to the foot.
I can
only assume that your reluctance to consider breath control as a method for
making elevation adjustments is, likewise, based on a misinterpretation that one
is making major changes measured in inches rather than millimeters. There is
simply too much supporting evidence that it works. You might even find, if you
utilize an electronic trainer, that through monitoring your own hold as you
settle on a target, that you are, in fact, doing precisely this without even
being aware of it. Check it out. Watch the hold as you approach the target.
After you've established your NPA, go for record and watch how you make minute
height adjustments before you fire the shot.
I think that, fundamentally, we
are all saying the same thing; NPA and balance are keys to the foundation of
successful shooting. Our methods for achieving this are where we seem to
diverge.
Posted by Paul H on February 03, 2002 at 12:33:54:
In some respects I
would agree with Michele about major changes using positional and rifle set up
changes but disagree totally about his comments about how to achieve minor
changes. ABANDON THE SHOT! I think it is a question of disciplines, what works
in prone will not necessary work in standing, especially with air rifle due to
the difference in barrel time between a pellet and a bullet due to their
differing velocities. Breath control will work in prone mainly due to the
tolerance of this position due to its greater stability and faster barrel
time.
In air rifle standing you simply do not have this degree of tolerence
and are frequently punished for minor muscling of whatever nature.
just for
information I was watching the Scatt traces of a top level AMU air rifle
shooter, I believe is wife picked up an odd medal at the last Olympics:-), it
was obvious how much thought had gone into his rifle set up and outer position
to achieve an NPA that did not need minor adjustments to the elevation- all that
could be seen was side to side movement. (In fact this lateral movement was
greater than most of his fellow competitors who he had beaten but it does appear
to be a common feature of shooters who also indulge in smallbore 3P, hopefully
somebody could explain?) The only other comment I would make in explanation is
that I would expect to abandon the shot if my zeropoint is not correct rather
than try to make minor corrections because I know that I will be punished for
ANY form of muscling. (See earlier for link between breath control and muscles)
If zero point is wrong then either/or outer position is not quite right or gun
mounting has set up some strange tensions somewhere.
I hope this is read in
the spirit it was intended.
Paul
Posted by Paul H on February 03, 2002 at 12:46:14:
My last reply was
posted before reading Michele latest post so it is not totally fair or true.
Having shot on five bull cards, a hangover from our imperial days, I can also
now see where Michele is coming from. With five bull cards, printed like a 5
playing card, minor elevation changes were made by moving the supporting hand
backwards or forwards and lateral changes by very small rotation of leading foot
but not by breath control! I still stand behind my arguement to avoid any form
of muscling if it can be avoided.
Paul
Posted by Michèle on February 03, 2002 at 13:09:29:
The following is
taken directly from the AMU's International Rifle Guide:
The shooter's
respiratory cycle: The shooter breathes naturally while assuming the firing
position. As the hold settles, the shooter takes one or more deeper breaths. As
the hold settles even more, the shooter begins to take up trigger slack and
closes the throat to stop the exhalation process. The main factor is to
consistently close the throat at the point the shooter feels most comfortable
AND WHEN THE TARGET HAS SETTLED IN THE FRONT SIGHT. If the hold does not settle
sufficiently, or the shot cannot be fired during the eight to ten second
respiratory pause, normal breathing should be resumed and the sequence
repeated."
Further, taken from Bill Krilling's Shooting for Gold:
"Breath
control should be used to perfect the sight picture once the natural point of
aim is established. Inhalation will cause the front sight to drop lower while
exhalation will cause the front sight to rise."
From The New Position Rifle
Shooting by Pullum and Hanenkrat:
"Proper breath control depends in part
upon the shooting position being correctly adjusted to the height of the target.
The explanation of the technique itself will make the reasons clear. The usual
shooting sequence is as follows: the rifle is placed in position, the aim is
allowed to settle on the target, and the shooter then takes a deep breath; this
deep inhalation usually causes the muzzle to elevate in the standing position,
and to depress in the kneeling and prone positions. To some extent the position
is correctly adjusted to the height of the target if, when the shooter begins to
exhale, the muscle begins to move toward the center of the bull (this movement
will be downward in standing, upward in kneeling and prone). When the vertical
movement of the muzzle brings the sights into correct relation with the bull,
the shooter cuts off the flow of air from his lungs. With breathing fully
suspended, the sights should rest in the center of the aim point."
Lecture
on shooting by Gold Medalist Launi Meili 4/2000:
"Breathing and holding are
automatic at the advanced level. Some shooters start with a deep breath and use
a shallow inhale and exhale until the sight picture is refined..."
But, as
Ralf Horneber points out in Olympic Target Rifle Shooting, "We should never
forget that breathing is ultimately an individual body function that must
therefore be subject to individual control."
While you may not have had
success using breath control in this manner, there are those that have.
Posted by Paul H on February 03, 2002 at 15:48:38:
: To avoid boring
others with my response to this excellent reply I have gone to e-mail. Due to
popular demand, I think he's called Richard:-) Here’s my reply.
Michele,
My not very considered reply:-)
The following is taken directly from the
AMU's International Rifle Guide: The shooter's respiratory cycle: The shooter
breathes naturally while assuming the firing position. As the hold settles, the
shooter takes one or more deeper breaths. As the hold settles even more, the
shooter begins to take up trigger slack and closes the throat to stop the
exhalation process. The main factor is to consistently close the throat at the
point the shooter feels most comfortable AND WHEN THE TARGET HAS SETTLED IN THE
FRONT SIGHT. If the hold does not settle sufficiently, or the shot cannot be
fired during the eight to ten second respiratory pause, normal breathing should
be resumed and the sequence repeated."
**This can be used to support my
arguments depending on interpretation:- 1) The comfortable stop breathing point
is the natural pause between exhalation and inhalation.
2) the point you
highlighted can be read another way:
In air rifle there is a delay in the gun
being totally stationary after mounting, it does take a while to settle on a
general NPA, if you are already "throat closed" at this point this will cut into
the 8 to 10 sec pause before optical nerve degradation sets in.
A thin
argument I know from your point of view:-)
Further, taken from Bill
Krilling's Shooting for Gold:
"Breath control should be used to perfect the
sight picture once the natural point of aim is established. Inhalation will
cause the front sight to drop lower while exhalation will cause the front sight
to rise."
**This sounds like prone shooting instructions from a while back.
(See below)
From The New Position Rifle Shooting by Pullum and Hanenkrat:
"Proper breath control depends in part upon the shooting position being
correctly adjusted to the height of the target. The explanation of the tech
unique itself will make the reasons clear. The usual shooting sequence is as
follows: the rifle is placed in position, the aim is allowed to settle on the
target, and the shooter then takes a deep breath; this deep inhalation usually
causes the muzzle to elevate in the standing position, and to depress in the
kneeling and prone positions. To some extent the position is correctly adjusted
to the height of the target if, when the shooter begins to exhale, the muscle
begins to move toward the centre of the bull (this movement will be downward in
standing, upward in kneeling and prone). When the vertical movement of the
muzzle brings the sights into correct relation with the bull, the shooter cuts
off the flow of air from his lungs. With breathing fully suspended, the sights
should rest in the centre of the aim point."
**This shows a lack of
knowledge about their subject. The direction of muzzle movement on exhalation or
inhalation depends on the height and angle of the barrel relative to the target.
Tall shooters reverse the pattern mentioned for standing.
Again the last are
instructions for prone shooting from the old school. I last heard this when
first shooting with the cadets over twenty years ago, modern physiological
science discredits this approach. I prefer the effort and understanding needed
to set up a gun and position correctly so that such adjustment is not necessary.
Understanding goes forward in sport science rapidly and certain authors do not
bother to research but rely on established anecdotal evidence "The Earth is
flat" routine.
It is also contradicted by the comments in the AMU guide about
when to stop breathing.
Lecture on shooting by Gold Medallist Launi Meili
4/2000:
"Breathing and holding are automatic at the advanced level. Some
shooters start with a deep breath and use a shallow inhale and exhale until the
sight picture is refined..."
**Here I show my ignorance.:-) What method
does/he she use?
But, as Ralf Horneber points out in Olympic Target Rifle
Shooting, "We should never forget that breathing is ultimately an individual
body function that must therefore be subject to individual control."
** To
establish the natural pause point?
While you may not have had success using
breath control in this manner, there are those that have.
I have not used
breath control for elevation purposes because I think it is discredited by the
current understanding of the breathing cycle and also by the need to avoid
active muscle tension at all costs. Most importantly there are more reliable and
precise ways to achieve the same effect without inducing an imprecise element
into your shooting. Those who have used this method may have been so technically
good in all other areas that this compensated for their induced error from this
method:-) (Firmly tongue in cheek)
The only answer would be to conduct
research, using a number of good shooters, into and against this technique,
using muzzle velocity plots from SCATT. I know where my money would be:-)
At
this point I beg to differ but thank you for forcing me to think through this
part of my technique and the reasons why we do or do not certain things.
With kind regards. Paul
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