Posted by John Newby on February 05, 2002 at 02:35:28:
According to
precision-sports.com, the Morini162EI will stop shooting at 100 bar to remind
the shooter to refill. Assuming I have a scuba tank I use to refill the
cylinders, the scuba tank pressure drops whenever I refill. When the pressure
drops to 100 bar the Morini 162EI will stop firing. Does this mean that the
Scuba tank is half full? Does it also mean that I will be wasting money when I
go to the dive shop? I have neither handpump nor Scuba tank yet. I've ordered
the yoke from Pilk and it is coming when this came to mind.
Posted by Dwain on February 05, 2002 at 05:33:50:
Your Morini cylinder is
measured in cu. in. The SCUBA cylinder is measured in cu. ft. I don't know what
the cu. in. is on the Morini, but the SCUBA is 80 cu. ft. at 3000 psi (about 200
din). Your displacing cu. ft. into cu. in. Bottom line, that’s a lot of air
fills, we are talking months. It takes about 2 seconds to fill off the SCUBA
tank. How long does it take you to hand pump a Morini cylinder full. At $3.50 an
air fill, I will continue using my SCUBA. For the cost of a hand pump, you can
buy SCUBA and years of re-fills. However, you still have to V.I.P the SCUBA tank
every year, and get a Hydro every 5 yr. But to me, well worth it. That's all I
have to say about that ;-)
Posted by Joe Matusic, MD on February 05, 2002 at 08:12:43:
I would
second almost all of what Dwain posted. Make sure to fill the air cylinder
slowly to prevent stress on the metal. It shouldn't get warm from filling too
quickly. You will get less and less shots per fill over time, but the cylinder
is so small compared to the scuba tank, you will probably get hundreds of fills.
Posted by John Newby on February 05, 2002 at 13:04:46:
I am going the
scuba way. So I'm going to get hundreds of fills which is great. Out of
curiosity isn't it that both sides of the equation should be equal? Meaning if
the scuba tank drops to 100 bar, that means when I refill the cylinder, it will
only go up to a 100 bar.
Correct? Which means two things:
a) The Morini
will not fire?
b) Does it mean 100 bar the tank is half filled?
Posted by R.M. on February 05, 2002 at 11:38:32:
John
I'm surprised
that the Morini's bottom line is 100 BAR. My SAM, and my wife's Hammerli's
bottom pressure is 75 BAR. No matter, with the 2 of us shooting, and we shoot a
lot, we only have to fill our tank about twice a year. Even if we had to fill it
more often, I still think that it's the way to go. There's times that I consider
getting a pump to top up the cylinders when our tank is getting down, but up
here in the mountains (9000 feet), the pump isn't as efficient because of the
thin air. We shoot way too much for us to rely on a pump solely. Just my 2 cents
worth.
R.M.
Posted by PGFaini on February 05, 2002 at 13:37:20:
John, There's a way
to use all of the air you purchased, after all $4 is $4. :=) Kidding aside, you
can use two tanks, filling from one, and topping off with the other. When the
first is about empty, have it filled, and use it to top off. For what it's
worth, I've got two tanks, an 80 cu. ft. and a 50 cu. ft. which being lighter, I
take to matches with me. I've never thought it worth the effort to use this
system, and it would take a lot of refills to offset the cost of a second tank,
but I understand some teams do this...Paul
Posted by Jerry on February 05, 2002 at 15:30:57:
Actually I have been
told that the regulator drives the Morini at 70Bar so even if the low pressure
lock kicks in at 100Bar there are a fair number of shots left in the cylinder.
Just push the lock out of the way and cock the pistol. Regretably the pressure
indicators in the end of the Morini are basically useless. Being a picky sort, I
benched the K-Valve to 200Din connector and bought K-Value+Manometer to 200Din
connector from Don Nygord's site so I could keep track of the pressure in the
tank ( which would be the same as a freshly filled cylinder).
I took about
8,000 to 10,000 shots before the pressure in the tank dropped to about 2000PSI
and the number of shots per cylinder dropped to about 60+.
I shoot
exclusively at home and think PCP is the coolest thing since indoor plumbing.
The only downside that I can think to PCP is that you cannot travel commercially
with compressed air. Of course if the dive shop where I get the tank filled went
out of business I could become unhappy. I suspect 3 to 4 fills per year will be
adequate for the most dedicated pistol shooter.
Shoot more and worry less
:)
--Jerry
Posted by TCK on February 05, 2002 at 22:59:58:
Gentlemen,
I suppose
there are 2 separate issues when we discuss this topic, or in most simplify term
- accuracy vs quantity. We are shooting with almost one of the most accurate
pistol that can be made. If that is the ultimate goal, then I don't mind having
an AP with a cylinder that is only good for 100 shots but can keep the grouping
into a single hole.
However, for daily shooting, I am sure all AP cylinders
can provide you an average of 150 good shoots even with a working pressure of
170 bars, with the exception of the Walther LP300, the cylinder pressure can
drop from 160 to 100 in just 60 shots. We are sure it is not a cylinder meter
problem because we have experience with different cylinders and LP300s.
Our
club uses an air compressor to fill the 2 scuba tanks for use by the members,
which can last for almost one week. Estimate consumption is app. 80 fills from
each tank. Up till now we believe it is the most cost benefit way of filling the
cylinders though we so have several hand pumps stand by.
Despite the
quantity issue, I would like to ask the shooters around for their experience
with their cylinders and APs but first I would like to describe what we believe
among us.
From a lot of shooters experienced with a number of different
brand of APs here, almost all cannot have a uniform burst when fill to maximum,
i.e. 200 bars with the exception of Walther cylinders, which can be filled to
300 bars. A general perception is it becomes steady when it comes to app. 180
bars. For this we have a debate among ourselves whether it is because the
shooter himself gets to shape or because the spring and all other moving parts
inside the AP have warm up after some 10 - 20 shoots. Almost all shooters will
fire several blank shots before practicing. When the time comes that the
cylinder drops to under 100 bars. A tendency is almost all shots will fly high
for app. 1 ring and then drops when finally the pressure drops to below 80 bars.
Our explanation is with the regulator in almost all modern APs, a uniform
burst is maintained by regulating the leaking time X volume of air flow.
With
a high cylinder pleasure, it can maintain more bursts with high airflow and
short burst time for each shot. When it comes to a low cylinder pressure, the
regulator will open longer to maintain the burst pressure. Numerically the
outcome (product) may be constant but consider the caliber as relative to the
barrel length, the burst time has the same effect of the powder burning rate in
ammos. The longer burst time will results in a higher velocity and thus a
flatter trajectory resulting of shots hitting high until finally the pressure is
too low to propel the pellet.
We have an excellent praise on the Morini
design because all meters on the cylinder can provide only a reference, but not
an accurate reading.
The devise on the Morini that prevents you from cocking
gives you a vital signal that the cylinder is not far from shooting wild so that
you know your position in a match. It is just like the warning signal on your
car. It will be meaningless if it lights up when the tank is totally empty.
is short because app. towards the low pressure
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