Posted by Eric Uptagrafft on February 24, 2001 at 15:33:20:
Hi everyone,
I'm just posting a note to talk about training with the Rika
trainer.
Currently my wife and I are living in a small apartment with barely
enough room to move around. We don't live close enough to any ranges to be able
to shoot with any regularity. The only option (besides quitting or being less
than the best) was to get some sort of dry-fire training device. To my
knowledge, there are three good systems on the market...Rika, SCATT, and Kurt.
Due to the limitations of the other two systems (you have to use them at fixed
distances, 3m for Kurt, and 5 or 10m for SCATT) I opted for the Rika. This
system can be used at any distance between 3 and 10 meters. I wanted the
flexibility to train at about 4m in my current apartment and then 10m when I
finally move into my new house. I received my Rika from Scott about three weeks
ago. I immediately loaded the software and started my practice sessions. I guess
the range we train at is about 4 meters. I initially started training for
smallbore rifle 3 position. Unfortunately, the apartment is too small to get
into the prone position. I was able, however, to set up in both the standing and
kneeling positions.
My impressions of the first time I used the device were
not too good. I thought there was no way my hold standing could be that bad. I
thought there must be something wrong with it (the Rika, not my hold). Actually
my bad hold was probably because I hadn't shot or even held a rifle in over four
months. After a little over a week of dry firing on the Rika, I did notice a
vast improvement in my hold.
Three days before the Rocky Mountain
Championships (a high national level rifle competition in Colorado Springs) my
new Steyr LG100 air rifle came in. The first thing I did was strap on the Rika
and start training. I got two days of dryfiring on the Steyr, and about 6 days
dryfiring on my Anschutz 1913 before the match. I ended up winning prone, 3rd in
3-position, and 5th in air (I've never had to train much prone). I beat a lot of
full time shooters from the Army Marksmanship Unit. I don't believe that I would
have had nearly those results without the feedback the Rika affords me.
Dry-firing inherently has many advantages: it doesn't wear out my good shooting
barrel, doesn't hide position and trigger control problems with recoil, and it
doesn't shoot up $700/case of my great shooting Eley. Dry-firing with the Rika
adds immense value to my training by also allowing me to see my hold, and to see
how good my trigger control and follow-thru are. The Rika also gives me the
feedback that makes dry-firing bearable (dry-firing would be too boring without
it).
My results from the Rocky Mountain Championships in smallbore were
nearly identical to what I was getting on the Rika in training. I believe that
the correlation between real shot placement and that of the Rika were spot-on.
In air rifle I found the Rika to be harder to shoot on than the real thing. This
is good...it makes me work harder in training. About the only complaint about
the Rika I have is that it is really cant sensitive. 1/2 of a degree off in cant
(Rika can tell you if your cant changes) in smallbore could move a shot out as
far as the 8-ring. I did find that I was paying a lot closer attention to my
cant in the match than I would normally have. It couldn't have hurt. I plan to
make it back to the Olympics in 2004. The only way I'm going to get there is a
lot of hard work, and the use of important tools like the Rika. If anyone has
any questions, let me know either on this bulletin board or by e-mailing me
directly.
Eric
PS. I don't work for Scott. He is a friend, and I thought
all of his customers would appreciate a little bit of candid information about
both the Rika and the Steyr LG100.
PSS. Sandra, my wife shoots pistol on the
Rika. If you have any questions for her about using the Rika, you can also reply
to this message, or to my e-mail.
Posted by Larry Sawyer on February 24, 2001 at 16:44:38:
Eric's comments
about using the RIKA trainer were well stated, and reveal the immense value to
using an electronic trainer. I would like to add my thoughts.
I also recently
got a trainer, although I purchased (leased) a Noptel. I wish to amend Eric's
statement that there are only three types available-- the Noptel makes it four.
I have been using the Noptel for two months now, and the feedback is amazingly
helpful. I am convinced that the Noptel is telling me exactly what I'm doing
right and wrong. And, its sensitivity perfectly mimics what happens at 50
meters.
Often, the Noptel is mentioned as the one people "would have bought,
if not for the price". It is significantly more money than the RIKA, but there
is some evidence that it is also more versatile. One notable difference is that
the target can be placed anywhere, as it does not need to be plugged in.
I
did a great deal of research before making my purchase, and now that I've used
it, I know that it will do nearly anything I want to -- any target type, any
distance, wind condition, etc.
The Noptel takes some knocks for being hard to
use, and this is not deserved. I can walk into the range area of my basement,
turn on the laptop, and I'm shooting sighters in less than two minutes. A couple
of minutes later, and I'm zeroed, and shooting for record. If you have heard bad
things about the Noptel, contact me I'll set the record straight. If anything,
it is too sensitive, like the problem Eric had with cant. But we know that in
real life, every little thing affects shot placement, and the Noptel doesn't let
you get away with anything. It forces perfection.
Eric, we should figure out
a way to shoot a prone match using our trainers! (uh oh, now I've done it....)
Posted by Eric Uptagrafft on February 24, 2001 at 17:58:59:
Larry,
Sorry I failed to mention Noptel. I too have experience with that system. I
guess I should have said "three good systems I could afford". There is no doubt
that the Noptel is good. The fact that you can live shoot on it with a .22 out
to 50 meters is a big plus. For my money, however, I would rather put the
difference in price toward ammunition, updating equipment, or a nice Hawaiian
vacation. Just my opinion.
Eric
Posted by Michael Ray on February 24, 2001 at 20:23:18:
:To my knowledge,
there are three good systems on the market...Rika, SCATT, and Kurt. Due to the
limitations of the other two systems (you have to use them at fixed distances,
3m for Kurt, and 5 or 10m for SCATT) I opted for the Rika. This system can be
used at any distance between 3 and 10 meters.
Some excellent comments from a
top US shooter. I just wanted to add there is some degree of flexibility with a
SCATT for those considering it as well as the RIKA. I have been using the SCATT
at 50 feet (dry and live), which is well past the 10m (33') range it is supposed
to be used at. This is about at it's limit and may depend upon your lighting
conditions but I know of 3 others who have done the same thing. I have not tried
to see how close in I could use it. I have not tried to correlate the score at
the 50 feet distance but it still seems to be very close to reality. I'm sure if
it bothered you that much, you could create a scaled target. Anyway, I use it
mainly to view the trace and watch execution and follow through as Eric was
pointing out, which is the big plus with these systems. It definitely adds a lot
of value to dry-fire training.
Posted by Ed on February 24, 2001 at 21:20:17:
Not only is the cant very
sensitive on the Rika, it is also backwards from live shooting. Where a cant to
the left would cause a hit down and left for live fire, on the Rika the hit is
off to the right. It is brought about by the distance of the bull above the
transmitter diodes. If you move the bull lower (closer to the diodes), you can
minimize the effect.
Ed
Posted by Walter on February 25, 2001 at 13:26:12:
I am happy to see the
feedback on the RIKA system...
I am a air and smallbore shooter and I have
been keeping my eye out for a training systems. To my knowledge there are 5
training systems. We have Noptel, Scatt, Curt, Rika and finally Sam Traniner.
I've never tried any of this systems but I assume that the best one out
there must be the Noptel, which is made by a finish company. The negative thing
about the Noptel is that it costs too much so I kind of erased it from my 'wish
list'. Now...I have 4 left to choose from. I've read that the Curt has to be
shot at a fixed distance (which I don't really like), but maybe it's a good
system. The Sam Trainer seem to be the cheapest of them all and to my knowledge
it can be shot to a distance up to 10 meter.
I think some of the systems
haven’t been modified for the last year (I believe). I was thinking of the
software...it seems that a few of them have bugs. It also seems like most of you
people giving feedback on electronic systems don't seem to be very satisfied
with your buy. That makes me more pessimistic about buying any system. Well, I
have been thinking of which training system to buy, but it seems to be very hard
to choose. Specially if you aren't able to try them out first.
I hope people
can keep writing about there experiences on different systems. Also if anyone
wants to send me some screenshot from different systems it would be appreciated.
Maybe also the prices to different systems
Have a good day
PS.Here
are some links to the different training
systems:
http://www.scatt.com/english/default.asp
http://www.rika1.com/
http://www.knestel.de/english/samtrain.htm
http://www.sfab.fsrskytte.se/curt/
Posted by Michael Ray on February 26, 2001 at 09:16:24:
: : I think some
of the systems haven’t been modified for the last year (I believe). I was
thinking of the software...it seems that a few of them have bugs. It also seems
like most of you people giving feedback on electronic systems don't seem to be
very satisfied with your buy. That makes me more pessimistic about buying any
system.
I don't know why you have that impression. Most everyone I've seen
posting on trainers have been positive. They are excellent tools. Like anything
you buy, including your firearms, each will have it's own quirks that some may
find annoying, but they still perform more than adequately.
Anyway, from
what I gather, this is my take on the 5 trainers available:
Noptel - very
nice and flexible but very expensive (~$2500 US)
RIKA - very similar to SCATT
now. While I haven't compared them back to back, they have many similar features
and cost about the same. I've been told SCATT software is much better overall
but don't know that for a fact. It has however, been on the market for more than
10 years so it should be pretty mature. (~$1000)
SCATT - Oldest trainer I'm
aware of (10+ years). Had a major hardware update in 98 and software continues
to be updated. Similar to the RIKA, but cannot show cant. Lightest sensor.
(~$1000)
CURT - Frankly I don't know why anyone would use one today. You're
limited to dry fire only at 3-4m target range and it costs more than SCATT/RIKA.
(~$1400)
SAM - their web site claimed it was dryfire only as well, which may
not matter to you. Don't know much about it since I don't know of any US
importer though I'd guess either Neil Johnson or ISS could get it for you since
AHG markets them. Bottom line - unless you have $$$, go with SCATT/RIKA. As Ed
mentioned, you can download the software from their sites to see what each is
like. I'm not sure if RIKA has sample files, but you can get some from SCATT.
Note there are 2 distinct versions of SCATT software now (16 and 32 bit). They
are quite different. The 32 looks better but they took some of the flexibility
out of the options you had (it's still in beta). They did make zeroing the
sensor easier though, which is important for me since I use it for my whole
team. If it were just for me, it wouldn't matter much. I have been in contact
with their developer, so we'll see if he puts some of the stuff back. He seemed
quite receptive to get such thorough feedback.
So just like Eric is available
to answer questions regarding the use of RIKA, I'll be happy to answer any SCATT
ones you have.
Posted by EdH on February 25, 2001 at 14:41:11:
If you would like to see
screen images of what the software shows, there are sample files as well as the
latest software at several of the sites. You can download and actually see what
the program does from at least the SCATT and RIKA sites. I've had my Rika for
about 3-4 months now. I've been pretty pleased with what it shows. The few items
I'm disappointed with are minor. A minor example, the default area for the
"number of shots list" comes up for 30 shots and more. I have to use _two_ mouse
clicks to choose 10 shots. _Real Minor!_ A little bit more annoying, is that the
main reason I use 10 shots is because some of the advanced data for more than
one string, puts up more targets on the screen at once. This makes it difficult
to impossible to see some of it for .22 shots on a larger target.
I would
like to point out that what I see on the Rika is what I witnessed during the
shot. The Rika retains the trace and gives me a solid look at the overall
sequence of events. In seeing this, I have actually been able to be become more
aware of what's happening during the shot. In a way the Rika has shown me how to
better "see" my dry fire. I've kind of said to myself recently, that if I could
have seen my dry fire activity this acutely before, I might not have needed the
Rika...
If I have any real disappointment, it manifests itself during those
times when I can't "correct" something that I don't like when looking at the
shot playback. This is probably where a coach would be beneficial. Someone who
could say, "This is what you need to do to change that."
EdH
Posted by Bill Kelley on February 28, 2001 at 12:49:31: I don't work for
Scott, either! But I can say without any reservation that the RIKA trainer does
everything that it claims to do. We got ours at Navy when they first arrived
last year and we've been very pleased with it from day one. I agree with Eric
that the value gained from shooting without recoil is immense and that the
feedback you get while doing that on a RIKA is invaluable.
We have been able
to isolate small technical problems more quickly and build shooters' confidence
when they see how the changes they make translate into improved holds and better
scores.
We looked into several other trainers before we got the RIKA (CURT,
SCATT, NOPTEL) and we have not been disappointed with our choice.
(NOTE TO
SCOTT: I'll expect the usual commission rate on RIKA sales! :-) )
Bill
Kelley
Head Rifle Coach USNA
Sponsored by Pilkington Competition Equipment