Target Talk

Need Help in Standing Position...


Posted by Cole on April 28, 2001 at 21:17:38:
Hi, guys. With my Daisy 853, in 3-position Air Rifle, I'm managing 95s in prone and kneeling, but my standing sucks. My average is 78. I've nailed 80 right on the head a few times, and even 87 once, but never over 90. This is really bothering me. I have a big match coming up next weekend, and I still can't boost my standing scores over 80! I REALLY REALLY need to do better than 270(my current avg). I dunno if it's my stance, or my trigger control, breathing(the latter two I doubt, considering the K and P scores...), or what, but something needs to be helped. 85 would be nice. I know, I know, practice, practice, practice, but it hasn't really helped much so far....

Posted by Coach John on April 29, 2001 at 13:43:07:
I just came back from the World Cup where I watched some interesting technique. One observation I want to share with you is the way the German Rifle Team (men & women) set-up for the shot. Every shooter on the line had a setup technique, but the German team's method was unique.
All shooters on the line had a relaxation moment after they picked up there rifle (with some taking more time than others). Alexandra Schneider of the German Team won the gold medal and took the most time to set up for the shot. Here's my observation.
During the finals, the match director gave the following command: ATTENTION!..3..2..1..START!
At which 1 minute 15 seconds appeared on the timer.
Alexandra took between 25-30 seconds during the finals to set up before placing her cheek on the comb. Alexandra's setup sequence appeared to be as follows: When "ATTENTION!" was given Alexandra lifted her rifle from the rest and paid attention to the fit of the butt onto her shoulder (4-5 seconds) she then placed her forward elbow and checked for inner position and sight alignment (3-5 seconds). Next she turned her head 90 degrees away from the target and placed her chin on the comb for approximately 13-16 seconds. It appeared she used this time to let her muscular tension and heart rate calm down and her body sways to settle from the effects of lifting and positioning her rifle. I also think she was focussing her attention on shooting a TEN. After 23-26 seconds from START!, Alexandra placed her cheek on the comb, checked for proper sight alignment and fired the shot (app. 6-7 seconds). By the time she placed her cheek on the comb, all psychological physical tension was gone.
It seemed that about half of the shooters on the line had already fired there shot before Alexandra had placed her cheek on the comb. She was the last to shoot with around 40 seconds remaining on the shot clock.
It is my opinion, her attention to detail, relaxation and psychological readiness in setting up for the shot, made the difference.
You are obviously an experienced shooter and don't have the luxury of using a stiff jacket, pants and shooting boots, not to mention the rifle your using only weights 7 lbs.
But with scores in the 540/600 range, I think I should be watching your technique for tips.
Best of luck in the upcoming match.
Coach John
P.S. It's time to move up to Precision 3-P and Int'l Air Rifle

Posted by Cole on April 29, 2001 at 18:51:50:
How do you get a 540/600? They had scores written like that for the Olympics. Is it standing only? Do you fire 60 shots? If you shoot 540/600 you must be pretty good! That's about 270 in 3 Position. If you shoot 540s, and it IS standing only, you're getting around an avg of 9 for each shot! Why were you watching Alexandra? You should have been shooting with her!!
Cole
PS Would like to move up, but I shoot with my JROTC team, and they do 3P Sporter.

Posted by Michael Ray on April 30, 2001 at 09:30:42:
I'll throw in my 2 cents worth.
How is your foundation? If it isn't the best it can be, you're going to get unnecessary movement. Then you can start worrying about what some of the others have suggested.
I'm assuming you can't wear shooting boots since you do sporter so what are you wearing? If you have shoes with lots of cushion like most tennis shoes, it will be more difficult to balance. As an experiment, you may try shooting without shoes if you've been wearing something like that. Some studies have shown that is the best anyway, though impractical in many situations.
Aside from the actual footwear, how do you have the weight on your feet? You don't want it on the balls or the heels but evenly distributed. You will sway less then. It's easiest to see this if you stand with your eyes closed and focus on how much your feet are moving (adjusting) to keep you upright. Do it for a minute in each scenario (ie, weight toward the balls, evenly distributed, and weight toward the heels).
In a similar fashion, you don't want excessive weight on the inside or outside of either foot as the body will correct for that as well (aside from tiring out much sooner). This seems to be more of a personal preference so see if it works better for you. For me, both of my feet point outward just a bit (5-8 degrees) and my rear foot is about 2 inches behind my front one. Some say you should point your toes inward a little which provides some free tension in the knees. Since you only have a few days left I would caution you not to go too overboard. Just the act of changing something may make your scores go up a bit simply for the fact that you're concentrating more on this new position or one of the techniques the others mentioned. It may not work out too well for you in the long run though. You usually need to work with position changes for at least a couple weeks to determine if it was a good change or not.
In prep for your next major goal, you need to think about what muscles are causing the most trouble. Think about what about the position does not feel right. All this should be done by dry firing. You will be wasting pellets otherwise. Every few practices fire groups to check your progress (WITHOUT a scope). You need to focus on your body and your performance, not score. That will take care of itself if you do your part.
OK, so you got more like 5 cents worth.

Posted by Cole on April 30, 2001 at 17:57:34:
I do most of that. I usually shoot without shoes, but they are now requiring me to have shoes(not boots). I had a pair of hard-sole dress shoes that I used, but a dog at the match ran off with one! Grrrrr...
I'll try some of that foot stuff, but it's pretty much already covered. Thanks a lot!
Cole
PS I'd rather have one nickel than two pennies any day!

Posted by Michael Ray on May 01, 2001 at 08:28:51:
: I do most of that. I usually shoot without shoes, but they are now requiring me to have shoes(not boots). I had a pair of hard-sole dress shoes that I used, but a dog at the match ran off with one! Grrrrr...
Just watch the soles can be fairly slick on those and your feet can move a bit without being able to tell sometimes. You've got the right idea though.
So if your foundation is pretty sound, move up and make sure the hips are parallel to the line of fire. Lots of people tend to twist their legs around rather than above their hips so they don't get a good tightening in the back.
Make sure elbow is placed the same, hand and cheek pressure are the same, head is upright and not tilted.
It all sounds so easy but it's amazing how many people cannot tell they are being inconsistent or doing something poorly.
Then work on your individual shot plan like some others have suggested. Every shot whether it's practice, sighter or match should be treated the same way with the same intensity.
: PS I'd rather have one nickel than two pennies any day!
Wouldn't we all!

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