Posted by Dennis Willing on October 05, 2001 at 14:52:42:
I stumbled onto
this site while doing some research on air guns. I recognize some of the names
here as those who I shoot bullseye with, so I guess I'm coming to a good site
for advice.
I have been shooting bullseye for over 20 years and shoot in the
High Master class. The only experience I have with air guns is the Daisy 777 I
blink birds with in my back yard. This is not exactly a great gun. I started
looking for an air gun to aid me in improving my shooting fundamentals and found
that I may also have found a new sport.
I ran across a Hammerli 480k, new in
the box, for $650, delivered. I assume this is a good price. (?)
Not having
any experience with compressed air, I started looking into the scuba refilling
method, to better understand it, and got conflicting information. Perhaps you
can help me out with several questions.
1. Is the Hammerli 480k a good gun?
(This is not a k2)
2. I have heard both ways, that the air cylinder is easy
to charge and a pain in the whazoo. Any thoughts?
3. My local dive shop said
they would fill the scuba tank for me, but suggested going to a 4500 psi tank,
because of the resulting drop in tank pressure when refilling the gun. This
doesn't sound like a good idea to me, how about you?
4. I heard that the gun
comes with a long adapter to make it easier to fill directly from the scuba
tank, but have also heard that it is still too short, making filling a pain.
Does the gun come with a long adapter and does it work?
5. Does the gun have
a gauge that lets me know when it needs filling? If not, how do you know?
6.
Of the scuba tanks I've seen, there isn't a gauge on any of them. How do you
know when they need filling?
7. If you have to travel to matches, should you
have one of the small tanks or does the large one work equally as well? 8. I see
scuba tanks come in a variety of sizes. What works best?
9. Can the gun's air
cylinder be removed? If so, do you first have to bleed off the air first? Is
there a valve to do this?
I can probably come up with a dozen more questions,
but that should keep someone busy for now. I appreciate any advice you can give
on this gun, air guns in general, and air gun competition. As you can see, I'm a
real novice at this.
I'm not going to make any hasty purchase until I better
understand what I'm doing. Thanks in advance.
Dennis Willing
Posted by Richard Ashmore on October 05, 2001 at
15:53:16:
Dennis,
Welcome to the wonderful world of airguns. I think
you're gonna like it here. I'll take a stab at your questions, based on my own
experience-
: 1. that’s hard to answer. It's not particularly popular where I
live (New England), Steyr and Morini are.
: 2. If the air cylinder is
removable, it's easy to charge.
: 3. It doesn't sound like a good idea to me,
either. The tank on my gun is rated for 200 bar, or around 3000psi.
: 4.
Don't know.
: 5. I get well over 100 shots from a full cylinder. I've been
using my SCUBA tank to refill it for nearly 5000 shots so far. There is a device
in the gun that should prevent it from firing if there isn't enough air.
: 6.
Don't know for sure. There is a yoke with a gauge available.
: 7. You can't
take a charged tank on a plane. Unless you drive to a lot of long matches, don't
worry too much. Wolf Creek has air available, but they're closing soon.
: 8.
Don't know. I have an 80 CF tank that has lasted for several years now.
: 9.
Can the gun's air cylinder be removed? If so, do you first have to bleed off the
air first? Is there a valve to do this?
: I can probably come up with a
dozen more questions, but that should keep someone busy for now. I appreciate
any advice you can give on this gun, air guns in general, and air gun
competition. As you can see, I'm a real novice at this.
: I'm not going to
make any hasty purchase until I better understand what I'm doing. Thanks in
advance.
: Dennis Willing
Posted by john bickar on October 05, 2001 at 16:44:03:
I shot a Hammerli
airgun for about 6 years, first the original 480 (almost 5 yrs), then a K for
about a month, then a K2. It was a very good gun for me and if you like the feel
of it, a 480K for $650 is a good deal. (OK, why did I switch? I need to pick up
3 or 4 points and I'd been stagnating for a year or so. So I looked on the line
at every World Cup and saw that no-one is shooting a Hammerli at the world-class
level [580+]. But that's me.)
Air cylinder on the 480K is easy to fill and
change, just as easy as any other compressed air gun.
I don't think it's
necessary to go with a 4500 PSI tank; all the ones that I've seen, both personal
and at ranges, are around 3000-3300 PSI.
Long adapter does work, although I
don't think it's absolutely necessary.
The gun does have a gauge that you
can screw on to the tank after you've filled it. Yokes are available to convert
a K fitting to a DIN fitting that have gauges on them as well. I think Scotty
has these for sale. Again, not absolutely necessary, but nice to have.
For
traveling: most ranges I've been to usually have air tanks available at the
range. I have one of the smaller scuba tanks and when I was shooting as a
civilian I only filled it about once a year. This was when I was shooting around
maybe 10,000 pellets a year.
You CAN unscrew the cylinder from the gun on
the 480K, and you don't have to bleed it first. This makes it nice if you just
want to "top off" the cylinder.
Bottom line: the 480K is a great gun to
start out with if you're willing to drop the money (and at $650 it's worth it).
It will be more accurate, dependable, and adjustable than the starter airguns,
and is capable of shooting world-class scores (with mine I was in the 580s
several times with a high of 586). You won't find yourself having to "upgrade" a
few years from now if you decide to get more serious about AP.
Posted by Dennis Willing on October 06, 2001 at 18:25:58:
Doug, Is there
any airgun competition in Michigan or the surrounding states? Maybe you can help
me out getting started. Heck, I don't even know the course of fire.
: The
quality of the competition will soon go up once Dennis Willing gets his hands on
a 10m air pistol. Welcome aboard, Denny.
: Doug.
Posted by Richard Ashmore on October 06, 2001 at 20:31:34:
Dennis,
That's the easiest part:-) Unlimited sighters plus sixty records
shots in one hour and forty-five minutes.
Posted by Will on October 06, 2001 at 16:32:39:
Dennis - 1. The 480K is a
decent gun for the money, especially for $650 (if brand new). Jason Meidinger
used one in his international competitions and shot world class scores in world
class competitions with it, so it won't hold you back. Make sure the
cylinder/gun holds air overnight. A common fault of the K is leakage, and it
would require expensive seals (O-rings) to repair.
2/9. The cylinder can be a
pain to fill at times. Hammerli suggest releasing the air from the cylinder with
the supplied bleeder before refilling, which wastes lots of air. BUT, the
cylinder/valve seals are quite expensive, so be careful. A flex-fill adapter (at
least 2 different configurations) was available for the K but has been
discontinued, but might still be found. Allows you to keep the cylinder on the
gun when re-filling w/o wasted air.
3. Do NOT go with 4500psi, stay with
3Kpsi..
4. The long-necked adapter has a special purpose, and that's to
adapt to the deeper 300BAR valves, not to make filling easier. And, it is
required to have that long adapter for 300BAR valves, and it works on the 200BAR
valves, too.
5/6. You will know you need a re-fill by two methods. The first
is getting low 6s, 7s, 8s and 9s instead of 10s. The second way is using the
manometer supplied with the gun.
7. Most air ranges that host large matches
will have air and CO2, but for the smaller ones, either bring an extra cylinder
or a small tank.
8. There are lots of used 80cu.ft. tanks on the market, but
if you buy new, I'd suggest you go with an aluminum 100cu.ft. 3000psi with a DIN
valve installed, that way you won't need to blow $50-100 on a yoke adapter.
On the K model, I actually prefer the plastic grips over the walnut. Cheaper
and better texture, and heavier. Just my opinion.
BUT, for an extra $350,
you can get an electric Morini from Scott!
Shoot well.Will
Posted by Dennis Willing on October 06, 2001 at 18:41:43:
With the
responses I've received here, plus one off list, there is a pattern with each
response.
The off list reply recommended buying a Steyr instead.
John
Bickar says it's a good gun for the money "if you like the feel." Something
wrong with the grip on this gun or it's overall "feel"? Keep in mind, that
although I know the gun is brand new, in the box, I've never seen it, or any
other K model. John switched from the K to ? he didn't say.
Will talks of
expensive O rings seals that, it appears, could easily become a problem and an
expensive repair. The equipment I need to making filling easier has been
discontinued. He recommends a Morini.
(Doug is just blowing smoke, or should
I say air)
I get the feeling that this gun could be lemon in Hammerli
clothing. I started looking at the Hammerli because I currently own two 208s for
bullseye competition and love them. I looked at Hammerli because of the known
quality I have experienced. Perhaps I'm wrong.
I know absolutely nothing
about air gun shooting. I'm open to suggestions. Although money is always a
consideration, it only costs a little bit more to go first class, and it's
usually worth it.
Dennis Willing
Posted by john bickar on October 06, 2001 at 21:25:17:
: John Bickar says
it's a good gun for the money "if you like the feel." Something wrong with the
grip on this gun or it's overall "feel"? Keep in mind, that although I know the
gun is brand new, in the box, I've never seen it, or any other K model. John
switched from the K to ? he didn't say.
Just that each gun feels different.
As an analogy, some people like a 208, some like a High Standard, some like a
model 41, some like a Kart, etc. Steyr and Morini are the 208s and 41s of the
airgun world--the top few shoot them, and (almost) everyone else follows suit.
Could Brian Zins break 890 with a High Standard? Yes. Can you break 580 with a
Hammerli? Yes. Would you recommend that a beginner shooter spend the extra cash
for a 208 over a High Standard? Maybe, maybe not. I think you see where this is
going, Denny; just trying to give you info to make a decision... BTW I'm
shooting a Steyr LP10 now.
Posted by Tony on October 06, 2001 at 18:56:03:
Dennis -
I bought a
Hammerli 480K2 from Larry Carter at Camp Perry this year. I just bought a new
Morini 162EI from Scott Pilkington. In my opinion, the Morini is VASTLY
superior. Don't get me wrong, I think the Hammerli is capable of shooting very
good scores - I just think it requires much more of the shooter in order to get
them. The Morini is truly a wold class piece of equipment and is very user
friendly.
You will find on this bulletin board, Morini and Steyr seem to be
the dominate choices. You will also find the same to be true among most world
class shooters. That being the case, you probably owe it to yourself to check
them out. My recommendation is that you look around and try a few guns out
before making your decision. Good luck and welcome to the sport.
Posted by Alan Stewart on October 06, 2001 at 19:57:56:
Denny:
Obviously you know one end of a gun from the other, so you are not
in the usual new-to-shooting category of many looking for their first airgun.
I'll just share what I was told by Don Nygord when I ordered my current air
pistol. I called to buy a gun, period, and since I was not in a position to try
lots of different options, Don and I talked alot about what things were
important to me in picking a gun. Basically, among the top end guns, Don felt
that if grip were most important, choose Steyr, if trigger is most important,
and choose Morini electric. Both about 3-400 more than your current Hammerli
deal, but like you said, going first class usually pays off.
YMMV and others
may differ, but that’s my 2 cents worth. BTW, I think John is now shooting a
Morini electric.
ars
Posted by john bickar on October 06, 2001 at 21:11:43:
In Reply to: Re:
Hammerli 480k posted by Alan Stewart on October 06, 2001 at 19:57:56:
No, I
got roped into shooting a Steyr LP10 and I actually like it. The price was right
(free), so I figured I'd give it a shot. Of course, that was the same amount I
paid for the Hammerli, which was one reason I shot it for so long.
Al, don't
think just because Fall Selection was cancelled that I've forgotten your offer
of good bourbon. I'll catch up with you sometime... ;)
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